Episode 2

Episode 2

Episode 2 - Barriers and challenges

Hello and welcome to Going Abroad, an original podcast by the Architects’ Council of Europe, supported by the Creative Europe Programme of the European Union.

In this podcast series, Going Abroad (working title), we explore the decisions, challenges, and lessons involved in taking an architectural practice abroad. Each episode features architects from Germany, Greece, Poland, France, and Malta, sharing their stories of taking this bold step.

In today’s episode, we dive into the challenges and barriers that architects have faced when going abroad. Let’s hear from our guests about their experiences.

First up, we have Lina Lahiri and Julia Knaak from Sauerbruch Hutton in Germany.

Q: What were some of the challenges and barriers you encountered when going abroad?

---12:40---

LL - “So it's, of course, different in different countries. But one big challenge when we did the Swedish project was that the role of the architect is is very, very different

“in Sweden, the scope is much smaller, so you have no responsibility really for the budget. You are it's very democratic. All the planners sit around the table,”

“What was also interesting was that, which I didn't know, being Swedish myself, was that we're very scared of conflict.”

“So, I would do a presentation on our scheme, and everyone would sit there and nod and look rather happy. And then when I would arrive back in Berlin, I would get an email where it said, thanks for your presentation. Actually, we need to change this, this, this, and this. And for me, that was really surprising because in Germany, the, the meetings are could be seen as hash harsh or rude from the outside. But, actually, what I really appreciate is that they're very open and very straightforward and very honest.”

“So if there is, different opinions, they would be discussed at the table at the time. A positive thing is what I experienced in Sweden is that it's not this kind of blame game. Sometimes I find the planning in Germany because architects also carry very large responsibility. It's a bit of a blame game. Who did this wrong?”

---14:37---

JK:

“I agree with Lina on on that in Germany, it's sometimes tricky because people rather think of, who might be to blame if there's something is is if this decision is taken. So a decision sometimes takes a lot of time. And this is what I like, about working in France, that it's more, focused on the results.”

“in France, you need to be to be lucky also to find the right client and the right team. But if you have them, you're obliged to do a project quite a bit faster than perhaps in Germany where a lot of emphasis is on the later stages. So in France, you need to to be sure that you you frame your project in the early phases because later on I mean, once it's, handed in and and the tender is done, the firms have the power also to, to convince the client.”

“So you need also a lot of discussion, a lot of communication to bring everybody together and motivate also. But if if you find the right people and you're really developing, then also together with the firms, the project, then it's, the then the pleasure is, mutual, I would say, because then you know also where to go, and you need to explain also to the firms why you do certain details.”

---17:27---

Now we move to Greece,

Q: Penny, what were some of the barriers that you encountered?

---11:08---

“Of course, there were many barriers and challenges”

“First of all is, I think I mentioned it, it had to do with the regulations. There are always in, when you, go and we do a project in a foreign country, you have to know very well the what is the regulatory framework.”

“Because we for example, we we had to be sure that, our project the project that we were consulting, it was in full compliance with the local regulations.”

“The second important thing was the the casual and the language barrier that we had to to, to face and we had to, see how to avoid having problems and misunderstanding and which sometimes produces delays.”

“And we try to avoid communication gaps. And, also, we try to understand the cultural norms and respect the local way way working practices and way of of working and etcetera.”

“And I think the the other challenge which was very important, was to how somebody coordinate multiple, disciplines from far, and especially, in the foreign market that, it's the first time that we have to face, things that we didn't have in in the past. So there, we we use, clear communication protocols. We have a a very well structured workflow, in order to maintain regular meetings and and in order to ensure that we have an alignment between our team in Greece and, the local engineers, and, of course, because in the team, there were also, international consultants from other countries. So to ensure that we are all in the same page. I think these were the most, important challenges that we had to face, and I think we have to face in every project when especially when we enter in a new country.”

---14:04---

Now we move to Ray from Malta representing his firm, Demicoli and Associates.

Q: Ray, did you experience and barriers or challenges going abroad?

---12:50---

“I mean, primarily language, because sometimes the locals tend to talk between them and you don't know what they're talking about, but sometimes it's it's rare, actually. The other huge is regulation.”

“So whenever we work in a foreign country, we always have a local architect who would be would take the responsibility and make sure that we follow all, regulations of the country. I think those are the biggest challenges. Also, the insurance of our own firm. Sometimes that we we don't get cover to work in certain countries. So we're just working and making sure that we're doing the right thing anyway.”

---14:10---

Q: In our previous episode you talked about working in Libya, perhaps you could expand a bit more on the challenges you faced there?

---20:28---

“Loads. Loads of challenges. Yeah. Definitely. Issues with silly things and everybody's after little tip or even stamping a passport, getting you faster, through something, you get a bit of hassle.”

“And then when you pay something, you it's all sorted. You learn that quickly there. So so so strange, anyway. It was it's there was a situation where sometimes you have to pay a little tip to get things sorted. You know?”

---21:20---

Next, we turn to Reda from AW 2 Associates in France.

Q: Reda, what do you think the main challenges or barriers are to going abroad?

---05:29---

“I think to be able to work at the international level in in an efficient way, you need to adapt, to, local conditions in many, many different ways. The challenges that you face will be, from legal to contractual to intellectual property, but also, construction techniques, local environment, and and uses for, architecture. So this level of adaptation that, you need is, required for you to be able to evolve in those different markets and to be able to produce the architecture that you're actually intending to produce. So, we have had to to do that quite a lot, throughout our our, the span of our, work, internationally.” 

---06:26---

On to our final guest,

Simon what would you say you think the main challenges or barriers are to going abroad?

---20:11---

“The biggest barrier which we encountered in the Western countries are the good qualification of the local architects”

“We didn't want to be a simply cheap labor force for them. This was not our thinking.”

“But to compete with them, it was simply a very, very difficult.”

“While in in in the east, in the Russia and Ukraine, that there there was not, but sure established market. There was a turmoil. There was, you know, projects, which are, unreasonable, and, there was need as a need to to do something reasonable out out of it. It was a market in the making.”

“And in this, turbulent waters, we could find our our our our our our niche, and our trust, while in in this tight straits of of, of western markets.”

“the the constraints were mainly cultural, I would say. So they had to learn to think some western things. They had to we had to learn the, local codes, cultural codes.”

“What is favor of them, what is, taboo for them, what is important, what is less important, and of course, regulations. But, with a good partner, the regulation side of it, is was relatively easy. So I I would say the biggest challenge was, to understand the psychology of the clients, how at the future users solve for the how much we can change? Because we had to change something. It couldn't be the same as the communist time.

But in what direction and, toward what degree not to be, over the board and build something for building. And our projects, in both cases, especially we are proud of of of of key projects proved that it was successful because we added the fresh freshness and then thinking out of their local box. And, our partners and our clients, could add the the the local system of values.” 

---25:26---

Thank you so much, everyone, for your great insights.

That concludes today’s episode of Going Abroad. We’ve explored some of the challenges architects have faced when going abroad. In our next episode, we’ll delve into Planning and Market Entry and where to find Useful Informationwhen taking your architectural practice abroad.

Thank you for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast. Going Abroad is curated by the Architects’ Council of Europe, supported by the Creative Europe Programme of the European Union, and produced by the Agence Calliopé.