Episode 4

Hello and welcome to Going Abroad, an original podcast by the Architects’ Council of Europe, supported by the Creative Europe Programme of the European Union.

In this podcast series, we explore the decisions, challenges, and lessons involved in taking an architectural practice abroad. Each episode features architects from across Europe sharing their stories, strategies, and advice.

In today’s episode, we focus on personal reflections on going abroad asking what our guests’ greatest surprise was about their foreign experience.

Let’s hear from our guests about their experiences.

First up, we have Lina Lahiri and Julia Knaak from Sauerbruch Hutton in Germany

Lina and Julia, could you share your recommendations for architects looking to expand internationally?

Q: What was the greatest surprise in your foreign experience?

---40:34---

LL - So the greatest in my in my experience is the, the best experience was to be able to build a a skyscraper or a tall building in my home city. I monthly get sort of appreciation from family and friends that I grew up with that is not connected to to our lives now. And I think it's super interesting to see how our architecture touches the lives of others and how it can change the city or re regeneration area.

The hardest experience, I think, is when you, when you work on things and you don't feel that you always get exactly understood as you really wanna do it. I recently did a competition in Seoul, and, throughout the competition, it became very clear that they actually wanted a Korean approach to the topic and a Korean way of working. And we worked with a local architect, but as sort of lead designers, it's, of course, very hard for us as an international office, but not necessarily Korean to to really understand dialogue with the Korean architect, it's very hard to sometimes understand all the finities. And that can really be very frustrating and difficult when you don't get it, right. But on the other hand, it also gets you curious, and you wanna make it better next time, and you wanna understand the culture more and go for it again.

So in the end, I think it was a positive experience also. It was just different and, painful at times. 

---42:24---

LL - I find it quite a tricky question. What was the greatest surprise in your foreign experience? I mean, in a way, you can translate that also if I'm thinking about it on every project that we that you do.

Is is this always about the role as an architect? Are you are you taking as as a as the, in your role as someone who who just gives his name and, then, a general enterprise or a general firm could then realize the project. You just give your name, and we're we're not an office like this. We really would let we insist on, going up to the end and really following up the project to the end. So, it's always a good surprise, of course, when when you think it's a quite a strong or harsh way of onward because you have a a general contractor, but then they you feel that they, they also understand the the challenge of the project.

And all of a sudden, there's this they click, and they they really want to to go the the small step further than they usually do, then this is the this is the nicest surprise and, of course, satisfaction of our work. And perhaps the other thing that is different in every country, but, again, also, depending on the configuration of teams and the constellation of, of of different, partners and all this is the quality of of architecture. The the very big difference is also in in Europe. What is good architecture? What is what is nicely built?

What is well built. There are a lot of, this the we've seen a bit all, and it it's it's great if if you have the right firms also who can you have still the knowledge of how to build it right. The carpenter, for example, who can really build very good detail and a very sustainable detail, like, in terms of it really stays for the next 10 years and not someone who's just cladding something. So having the right phones with us and, seeing which regions of Europe they exist still exist, this is very interesting to see.

---44:27---

Next we have Penny from Elytron in Greece.

Q: What would you say was your greatest surprise in in your foreign experience? 

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“I don't have any bad experiences up to now. So what I can say is that my greatest surprise is on personal level that I understood I realized that, it's very easy to work anywhere abroad. The architecture and engineering, language is is universal.”

“They there are no borders, and even if the project is in Europe or in Asia or elsewhere, there is a common technical language that, allow us to have a smooth collaboration and to easy adapt and integrate into international teams. That was my greatest surprise, and I realized it very soon. And that gave me a lot of confidence to keep keep going and, try to find new project abroad.”

---33:10---

--- 29:11---

“The experience of working of working abroad, It it's very it's it's very valuable, I I think. The the biggest benefit when somebody works abroad is this continuous exposure that he has to new knowledge, to new technology that help help us to grow as professional. I think that's the most important and the biggest benefit that we get.”

---29:51---

Let’s move to Ray in Malta from Demicoli and associates.

Q: And what was your greatest surprise in your foreign experience?

---33:00---

I think the greatest surprise was when we won the competition in Istanbul. And I'll I'll talk a little bit about it because this this project was very close to the airport in Istanbul. And the client wanted to have a hotel, which was needed to be about 300 rooms.

But the height limitation in the area, vicinity of the hotel, was only 19 floors. And when we tried to put 300 rooms in 19 floors, the building looked horrible. So I thought, look. I mean, this is the first time we're going to Istanbul, and I thought, well, we I did a bit of research, about different airports and the lines of the runaways and the buildings around. And I went to the local guys here in Malta and asked if there are if they knew of airports where there were high buildings but not affecting the lines of approach of a runway or takeoff.

And they told me there's about 10 they knew about, and they mentioned these to me. So I thought, well, I'm not gonna stick to the rules. I'm gonna just make a beautiful building that looked really nice, and we went with 33 floors in the competition. So we didn't stick to the rules, but it was a beautiful, really iconic building. And I thought, yeah, let's let's go.

And I have reason why, to go over the limit, and I will back my client when he goes to the authorities. So, anyway, it was a big risk, but, we won the competition. So risking is worth it sometimes. So it's quite a a good good story. So it's good to risk, especially competition.

---35:20---

Thanks Ray,

On to Reda from AW 2 associates in France,

Q: What what would be a surprise in in your foreign experience?

---28:08---

With local, contractors and and creating documentation to build a project, it's always, interesting to see how people would read and understand the information that you're producing, because, basically, a construction documentation package is a series. I mean, it's it's thousands of of, information for the building to be, to be built. And this is read by people that are maybe their native language is not the same as ours. Maybe their understanding of our drawings is not the same.

So, interestingly enough, sometimes we come to site, and we see things that we did not think was what we what we designed because their interpretation of of our, drawings is is is a a little bit removed from the one we had. And sometimes it's, a new idea that we can work with, and sometimes it just makes us think that we should forget the idea we had and rethink, the detail and and come up with something that, is more workable for everyone to to produce. So I think that with this example, which is like a a very small example, I think it shows what working internationally means. It means that you're gonna have to go in in with very close contact to people who are looking at the world and around them in a different way than yours. And your ability to understand that and to accept that and to make it yours sometimes, and also your ability to communicate, your own vision is is something that is really key, to to working in that way because it it creates a human adventure for each project that you design.

And I think that's really why we're doing this job in the first place. 

---30:07---

On we go to Simon in poland from APA

Q: What was the greatest surprise in your foreign experience?

---34:57---

My greatest surprise, while working, abroad was, how similar and how different, are other people. We've working with, especially Ukrainian guys, we created the team with the local architect, with the clients, when the atmosphere was almost identical. There was very, very quick, sometimes wireless communication. So it was surprised us how easy is, is, to merge when you have a common goal and, try to be fair from from, from both both sides. Surprised were, surprising were some, important for things which, were very important for them, and completely unimportant, for us, which was easy to fix.

The the, for example, in Russia, especially, the need of kirking, the the the kind of a separation from the, you know, top management to the other was a big, for example, super surprise for us. You may not know, but a lot of cars in Moscow, business cars had, you know, the the the police like blue, I don't know how to call it in English, signaling, devices. So they have a priority in the terrible traffic of Moscow. So we had to design the 1st floor of underground parking, like, 30, 40 centimeters higher. So this huge cars could enter without taking off this, signaling device.

Such a small cultural, surprises, what's important, what are the materials which are considered, prestigious, what are not. But not the essence, the essence was the same in all these countries, especially in Ukraine, which is a very Western thinking country, whatever you may think. 

---37:38---

Thank you so much, everyone, for your great insights.

That concludes today’s episode of Going Abroad. We’ve explored some of the challenges architects have faced when going abroad. In our next episode, we’ll delve into Planning and Market Entry and where to find Useful Informationwhen taking your architectural practice abroad.

Thank you for tuning in, and don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast. Going Abroad is curated by the Architects’ Council of Europe, supported by the Creative Europe Programme of the European Union, and produced by the Agence Calliopé.